But she says, you can tell right away, just by looking, that some rat moms don't lick their kids a lot. I had everybody's abuse on my back and I didn't care how we said it, or how we did it. SAM KEAN: But this was a really, really tough place to grow up. He'd fall asleep and just wake up screaming. Stick around. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. OLOV BYGREN: It was very interesting discovery. I mean that's a different kind of odds, but its DESTINY HARRIS: Hi, this is Destiny Harris. Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. Kammerer thought, "Wow. PEJK MALINOVSKI: It's not very politically correct, huh? And one of them is called the thyroid system. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. What they decided to do first was to try to figure out which rat was which, which meant, interestingly, counting all the legs. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Barbara Harris says she's convinced more than a dozen women], [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Have accepted her offer to be sterilized in return for money.]. She started to wish again that she could have a daughter. JAD: That is impossible, so far as we know, but there seems to be this layer on top of the genes. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. CHARLOTTE ZIMMER: Hi, my name is Charlotte Zimmer. Barbara Harris's solution is simpler than anything else out there. Yeah, thats it. CHARLOTTE ZIMMER: Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and CHARLOTTE and VERONICA ZIMMER: The Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. JAD: Even if it helps, it's horrifying. She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. His famous example was giraffes. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. Yeah, there you go. Push yourself and you got it.". You know, when smart people say, you know, "There's no such thing as nature and nurture it's only interaction of the two," You're like, "What the hell does that mean?" And so, you could only see one nuptial pad, and it all comes down to thisand all of that was just about to fall apart. They both say that they actually often forget that they're not biologically related. So then over the next 70 some odd years, Lamarck basically became the poster boy for, like, the big dumb idea, the idea that you want to believe in but that you know isn't true. Basically, the midwife toad has a strange habit for toads. Oh my goodness. That was nice. And well just let the old yahoos from whom we inheritedededed inherited it take it away. Okay. Radiolab 50.3K subscribers Subscribe 29 1.5K views 6 months ago On this episode, the case that pushed one Supreme Court justice to a nervous breakdown, brought a boiling feud to a head, and. Yeah. JAD: These are four kids from the same birth mother? But this was a really, really tough place to grow up. He is passionate about scholarly writing, World History, and Political sciences. Through all the training that we had to do and first aid, fingerprinted and had a background check done. "She's born and tested positive for PCP crack and heroin." More of this particular protein. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. That doesn't matter. We talked to her for a little while and At a certain point the social worker pulls out a stack of papers. JAD: Is that a genetic hatred of whistling that I just had? ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: I'd like everybody to meet, please, Barbara Harris. So he's got to live his life as a toad with all this baggage on him? His reputation was that he could get inside the mind of, say, a salamander and know just what it wanted to eat. Okay, so lets get going and stick with your boy, Lamarck, just for a sec. ROBERT: Thats what Darwin says, you cant. I mean, they didn't have porridge. Oh, that's a lot of potatoes. If you've already had a kid, you can be sterilized. Were just talking about toad, I thought. A lot of times that's not the case. I know I've been joking a lot in this interview, but I mean it with all that I am. JAD: Because while you might have a lot of influence, you know, genetically speaking, over your kids and their kids, you don't seem to have a lot of control. Birth mother's name was actually the same as me, so, Barbara. JAD: I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. The results make it probable that our descendants will learn more quickly what we know well, will execute more easily what we have accomplished with great effort, will be able to withstand what injured us almost to the point of death. Radiolab Society & Culture Science Latest Transcripts What Up Holmes? It's off-limits. JEAN KEAN: My name is Jean Kean. JAD: So this whole debate, two totally different ways of seeing life. [chuckles]. Each stone represents a radioisotope by means of a. Michael was in school and he got interested in a very, very basic question about how things get passed down? As he's doing his rounds, he stops by the midwife toad terrarium, he looks down at that little male toad with grapes stuck to his legs and he wonders, "How adaptable is that little guy?" Twitter: @wnycradiolab Language: English Contact: WNYC Radio 160 Varick St. New York, NY 10013 (646) 829-4000 Website: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/ Email: radiolab@wnyc.org Episodes Golden Goose 2/17/2023 More BARBARA HARRIS: It was just no baby should have to come into the world like that. PAT: Just a little. Anyways, God bless you. Its an idea thats been kicking around for me since my kids were born. OLOV BYGREN: So they didn't starve to death. If you're a starving boy between 9 to 12 years old, now it doesn't matter a whole lot what happens to you after this, your grandchildren will have one-quarter the risk of heart disease. PAT: And all over the political spectrum, from Hollywood lefties to social conservatives. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: You have to do that for five hours a day for six consecutive days. They like to hang out in the water and the females like to lay eggs in the water. These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. Yes, no, okay, move on to the next cage, yes, no? MICHAEL MEANEY: Kick off certain hormonal systems. At the Vivarium, as the name suggests, they have live animals. Kalia came too. They like to hang out in the water and the females like to lay eggs in the water. He's not just talking about toads anymore, he's gone way beyond toads. ROBERT: So then the one that's in trouble, so thats one of one of eight? He hit the lecture circuit and he hit it big. Yeah, the social worker called and told me the mother had given birth. And I didn't find a single case of someone saying that they regretted what they've done. And, I mean, I have straight A's and I'm making it work. In just two generations, these toads seem to have done something that should have taken, I don't know, 50, 100 generations? ", In other words, "Could I pay women who have drug problems to stop having babies?". Lamarck said, You wanna know how a giraffe got its long neck?, One day this giraffe, mother giraffe, lets say, was looking up in the tree and saw some fruit, and had to stretch he neck, and stretch again. JAD: In just two generations, these toads seem to have done something that should have taken, I don't know, 50, 100 generations? I think I was really horrified and terrified. ROBERT: A few years later, there'd be a harsh winter. That tongue is doing something to the DNA. Stretching got into the baby. They decided to explore this question. This is nice and quiet. ROBERT: Instead of dying at 40, I'd live to 70? ROBERT: I think what's weird here is that is that we started trying to make a difference in our children and now we're surprise attacked by our grandparents. It's against the rules. You are not God. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: That's their choice, but the babies don't have a choice.]. More what kind of stuff? PAT: The question that was stuck in my head right then was, "If you could choose between being born knowing that your life might end up like that and not like it is now, or not been born at all, what would you have done?". And in 1989, when the story we're telling now started, she was living in California, in Orange County. Well, lets not get too excited too fast because we have a story to tell and this tale leaves me a little queasy. Isaiah's in college and Taylor and Brandon, I met them at Barbara's house and they seemed to be fine. Plus, find other cool things we did in the past like miniseries, music videos, short films and animations, behind-the-scenes features, Radiolab live shows, and more. That's against the rules. [chuckles], OLOV BYGREN: Yes, yes. That's a lot of people. A little village? Well, he thought it might have been an assistant trying to frame him because he was Jewish. Move on to the next cage yes, no? BARBARA HARRIS: Sounds bizarre, but it's a solution. But what exactly Maybe you can explain this to me, Robert. All jokes aside. Well, her explanation is that these women are having, in her terms, litters of damaged babies and society forever will be responsible for them. Because you begin with a mother's lick that ends up with a deep, deep change in the baby, not just the good, warm, fuzzy feeling, but a fundamental shift in who that baby is, and who that baby will be. 2K views almost 2 years ago 48:23 Love it or hate it, the freedom to say obnoxious and subversive things is the quintessence of what makes America America. LATIF: Oh you said it so much more diplomatically. BARBARA HARRIS: With a child, they give you a whole folder full of information, tells you all about them. You don't think that they should have their children back?]. We travel to Ukraine to follow a shipment of abortion pills, and discover a complicated conversation about pregnancy and choice in wartime. [1] Radiolab was founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002. Were there any consequences? Its just That's just how I've always looked at it. Kinda makes me claustrophobic. And these effects, in fact, were so strong that you could trace it to the grandfather. You know what they're going to go do with that money. BARBARA HARRIS: Yes, she has the same name as me. She's 20 months old. BARBARA HARRIS: "I want to thank you for your support and kindness as always." Radiolab is on YouTube! JAD: And looking at these swings in fortune, Olov realized what he had here was JAD: Because with all this data, he and his team could follow families forward in time, through the generations. We all know this, that there are cycles of abuse or whatever. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? Move on to the next cage, yes, no? I dont know. I'm graduating in December. So were getting close to the moment of truth, because there it is. BARBARA HARRIS: Because he couldn't hold formula down. The reason they're more aroused is that the mom's licking activates the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline in the pup. Yeah. And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. Four or five steps later, we are in JAD: So almost instantaneously, the mother's tongue has reached into the baby's brain cells. I already knew that if I ever got a little girl, I was going to name her Destiny. The critical part of this JAD: Is that all these changes wake up this little gang of proteins. He said, "If you were a boy, and you starve between the ages of 9 and 12, and then you went on to become a father, then a grandfather, your grandkids". How do those cycles perpetuate? [laughs] Can you say, "Never, ever?" ROBERT: Okay. Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. ROBERT: So if they saw somebody who was starving as a kid in 1820, they could then see, "Well, when those people had children and grandchildren, did anything change? JAD: Started with the tongue. And then they're going to basically revel at that particular spot and turn on that gene. OLOV BYGREN: Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. You know, like if you're abused as a kid, you were more likely to abuse your kid, but still, you got to wonder. PAT: And I just felt like it was in one of those moments that contains everything that's good about us as people. Inheritance | Radiolab Podcast 4,710 views Apr 8, 2022 Radiolab 43.8K subscribers From the Radiolab podcast: How your grandfather's diet can affect your lifespan, heart health and even. She's not offering treatment, she's not offering counseling, and there are programs that do that. I have to be creative.". Whole lifetime of stretching. That's the stuff that makes you you. ROBERT: They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. JAD: Theyd basically starve. DESTINY HARRIS: That's my little girl. ROBERT: Because it's got the thing stuck to it? But I'm going to give them a basin of water. PAT: Have you ever had someone call or write you and say that they regret their decision? What exactly happens between 9 to 12 that makes this big difference? JAD: [laughs] Youre just just judo, that's all this is. It's just a mind crushing tedium. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations._Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. ROBERT: But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. JAD: They suddenly had to get by on a tiny fraction of the food that they were used to. The bit of DNA that will give this baby when it grows up the instincts to be nice to its baby, and lick that baby. All the babies I had seen and all the people that have called me to tell me about their babies that were damaged. You know, you've got all these chemicals around. So its like grandpa's struggle is jumping forward and giving me a leg up? Or is it? MICHAEL MEANEY: Yep, Im a professor in the faculty of medicine at McGill University in Montreal. And according to Barbara, the majority of the women she pays are white. You know? Wait, when you say they can choose to be sterilized, you mean permanent? Knock it right off the DNA. The reason they're more aroused is that the mom's licking activates the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline in the pup. Taylor Swift's Never Getting Back Together. JAD: Not only that. You can't see that on the radio but, hey, it's a fact of life. [laughs] Can you say, "Never, ever?" Right below the headlines says, "Scientist's great discovery which may change us all.". DESTINY HARRIS: As you can see, I like to talk. PAT: Which I find kind of hard to believe but, then again, I must have read at least 100 news articles as I was reporting this story. So here's what you're going to notice. I had asked for a newborn, so when the social worker called me, she said, "I have this cute little baby girl for you but she's eight months old. After I've gotten to know so many of the women. We had an expression here, "Dig where you stand." And one of them is called the thyroid system. Well, so here's the thing. BARBARA HARRIS: After I've gotten to know so many of the women. SAM KEAN: You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? Because we had already had to upgrade from a car to a van, from a condo to a home. Brain disease. ROBERT: I wonder. When Emil gets to be eight, I'm cutting him off. So yeah, she keeps me busy. Is it a big town? PAT: And that number, by the way, has grown a lot. And um BARBARA HARRIS: I had asked for a newborn, so when the social worker called me, she said, "I have this cute little baby girl for you but she's eight months old. Sincerely, Jennifer.". Full disclosure, she's Robert's sister's partner. As he's doing his rounds, he stops by the midwife toad terrarium, he looks down at that little male toad with grapes stuck to his legs and he wonders, "How adaptable is that little guy?" How old are your boys right now? The results are obvious to you. And those lucky ones, according to Darwin's theory, they would have had to have been born with some random mutation in their genes That gave them an advantage in this situation. I think all parents do this, is that you slip into this Lamarckian delusion that What you do with your kids can somehow rewrite all of that. This is real physical-chemical interaction between what's going on in the environment and what's going on with the DNA. And Destiny was in the other room, sleeping or something, I'm not sure. Or does it get passed on such a deep level that doesn't even require teaching? It's a little odd, actually. When you first hear about this, what goes through your mind? Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. So. I guess the way I would look at it is that you can change your environment a lot more easily than you can change your genes. ROBERT: And that advantage, whatever it was, because it starts with one individual, and then it gets passed onto the kids, and then onto their kids, it would take a long, long, long time to spread through the whole population because, generally, that's how evolution works. She'll be two in January. You know? JAD: Don't you see, somehow the mother's tongue is getting all the way down in there and going [mumbles] and messing with the baby's DNA. ROBERT: You wonder, where did that come from? And if you haven't, you can choose to have an IUD, or an implant put in which will last for several years. What you see in the records, is that one year 100 liters. PAT: And in 1989, when the story we're telling now started, she was living in California, in Orange County. Nobody has a right to do that to a baby. I'm Executive Director and Founder of National Advocates for Pregnant Women. I decided to have a press conference in my front yard to announce what I was doing. So, somehow, by some chemical mechanism, starving grandpa, back when he was about 9 to 12 years old, turned out to be a good thing. But it failed. Radiolab: Parasites Transcript For copyright reasons we can't provide a transcript of the WNYC Radiolab feature on parasites. You got your good parents and your bad parents. LULU: A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. You know, just take a little peek for themselves, and every time SAM KEAN: Kammerer said no, they were his specimens. I'm Sam Kean's dad. And since Kammerer kept the heat up, toads basically had to stay there, in this watery place that they had not evolved for. My name is Jean Kean. Sat her on my lap, with her little dress on and her little curly hair. PAT: And according to Barbara, the majority of the women she pays are white. It was something they acquired during their lifetime. I ended up finding myself really conflicted about it. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. ROBERT: What do you mean? No, she was an oops kid. BARBARA HARRIS: Aw, you blew him a kiss? Not only that. ROBERT: Remind me this. DESTINY HARRIS: Our staff includes Alan Horn, Soren Wheeler, Pat Walters DESTINY HARRIS: With help from Matt Kielty, Chris [unintelligible 01:04:17], PAT'S DAD: And Kenny [unintelligible 01:04:18], PAT: Special thanks to Martin [unintelligible 01:04:21]. RADIOLAB Podcast "Inheritance" Homework Assignment Name: Rohan Desai PSUID: 9 6241 8529 Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. CARL ZIMMER: But there were a lot of skeptics. "I want to thank you for your support and kindness as always." I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. Do you have any theories for how this tongue is tickling the DNA, or whatever it's doing? SAM KEAN: It does, it does make kind of a folk sense. ], Sterilized? She said, "Well, she's just beautiful and she has lips like a baby doll." But luckily for the Vivarium and for our story, they had a guy. I find myself thinking like, Okay, I know these kids have their genes half from me, half from my wife. I mean, youre just youre saying a lot of things that are really impressive. Kalia came too. Apparently, those grandkids SAM KEAN: Were less prone to diabetes. JAD: You got your good parents and your bad parents. 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